Talk:United Micronations (2014)

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Proposal 7-11-2015, from the Democratic Republic of Belia

Belia proposal UM 7-11-2015.png

Flag of the Democratic Republic of Belia.png Belia

Nova Belmonte 10.11.2015

After any Micronation has responded to our proposal, first of all we would like to remind you that the target of being former member of the United Micronations should be to be an active member, not to ignore the proposals of other members. After this, the Democratic Republic of Belia made a proposal for make a common answer against the Islamic State last November 7, that proposition was absolutely ignored.

The Democratic Republic of Belia feels threatened by the growth of terrorism in the world, the Democratic Republic of Belia is not available to leave in risk the life of our citizens.

Today it has developed a referendum in Democratic Republic of Belia whether our nation should intervene against the Islamic State, the option YES has been overwhelming and has won with 97.09% of the votes. So the Democratic Republic of Belia is ready to militarily attack against this terrorist group.

The Democratic Republic of Belia is a member of the United Micronations, we would like to make a common response with our allies. Belia's government has thought of proposing to all members of the Union of Micronations to give mutual support among all nations.

Democratic Republic of Belia is available to listen to all opinions and proposals of the members of the Union of Micronations.

Shadesia Flag.jpg Shadesia

We totally agree with your government. Referendum will be in our country tomorrow.

Flag of the United Socialist States of Perxico.jpg United Socialist States of Perxico

The Government of Belia has all Perxico military support in the war against terrorism.

Flaggyflag.pngPopular Union of Occitania

We do not believe our micronations can be victims of attacks. We placed an embargo on ISIS and à title "Terrorist Organization"

Flag of Fitberland.pngRepublic of Fitberland

I dont think that Micronational War is good. But Terrorism is bad so i Agree

Shadesia Flag.jpg Shadesia

Calling to recognize Somaliland

In Shadesia we recently recognized Somaliland, so, i call all UM members to recognize it too.

President of Shadesia, Nikola Jovanovic.

PeoplesRepublicofHashimaFlag.pngPrincipality of Hashima

The position of the Principality of Hashima is against declaring wars, as how is also one mainly objective of the United Micronations itself.

We think is just necessary to work hard on the improvement of the national security and on the immigration policy for every Micronation, for avoid this threat of ISIS.

Hashima doesn't recognize ISIS as a Sovereign Country, but we don't declare war against them, because we prefer to protect our citizens, not to send to die. We improved our national security and applied more restrictive laws concerning citizenship and immigration (VISA), and until today we never received threats from ISIS, and nobody citizen of Hashima died because ISIS.

War is never a good answer, this must be clear!
We hovewer can suggest defensive measures, like how already said the improvement of the national security, that can pass for example with formation and/or improvement of Custom-Borders Corps, police corps that will protect Your borders and will check every person that enters inside Your Micronation.

If ISIS should attack You inside Your borders, Hashima is not against a reaction, only keeping it inside the national borders.

I remember to everyone that the United Micronations is a peaceful Organization, and that war is not contemplated as a solution.

Personally, the Principality of Hashima will not support bellicose actions against ISIS or against everyone other (terrorist organizations, recognized Countries, Organizations, ecc...). This not because we defend someone, only because war is not a solution, especially if You are the first one to attack, without a real needing (i doubt that ISIS did terrorist attacks inside Your Micronations, or also that is planning to do).

Also, i invite everyone to keep real, because i'm pretty sure that nobody of us is enough strong to last 1 minute into an hypothetical conflict against ISIS (fake armies remain fake, so don't say that You want to attack with tanks, nuclear weapons...), so please try to follow the advices.

About the question of recognition of Somaliland, the Principality of Hashima matches this position (in fact, we already recognize Somaliland).

We want to officially ask to everyone to take in consideration the recognition of the following territories as Sovereign Countries:

  • All members of the United Nations
  • Abkhazia
  • Cook Islands
  • Donetsk People's Republic
  • Kosovo
  • Luhansk People's Republic
  • Nagorno-Karabakh
  • New Caledonia
  • Niue
  • Principality of Sealand
  • Puerto Rico
  • Republic of West Papua
  • Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic
  • South Ossetia
  • Sovereign Military Order of Malta
  • State of Palestine
  • Taiwan
  • Tibet
  • Tokelau
  • Transnistria
  • Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
  • Vatican City

Flaggyflag.pngPopular Union of Occitania

We will never recognize this terrorist states despite the request of our friends.

Shadesia Flag.jpgShadesia

Shadesia will recognize most of the countries by voting in parliament today.

Flaggyflag.pngPopular Union of Occitania withdraw

We withdraw from the organization to protest in the addition unchecked of new members.

Reply

I have just checked that picture, and i'm going to contact the member (Kingdom of Cumagn) for have further informations about this. I will pretend that the picture will be removed, or Cumagn will be expelled from the UM. About your position, i think is exaggerated, why you can't simply contact Us and signal the problem? I invite You to reconsiderate Your withdraw, as how I said Hashima is right moving for solve this. If You will continue with Your decision, I have to tell You that the United Micronations is a serious Organization, and nobody can withdraw and re-apply again as when their mood changes. If you officially withdraw, I will not be able to admit You again inside the UM, not at the least in a close time.

Dank flag 2 copy.pngFederal Republic of Whestcorea

Whestcorea, as its first motion upon joining the UM, proposes that the power to expel members be vested in the United Micronations as a whole rather than in the UM President alone. This way, each side in each incident can make their case and expulsions can be more impartial.

Reply

The actual system is enough safe, the incumbent Chairman can expel a member only after had warned him about the violation of the rules. If after the warning(s), the Micronation member continues to violate the rules of the Organization, then the Chairman has the power to expel the Micronation, publishing the real reason(s) for the expulsion. Giving this power to all the members, can be a very good democratic act, but can be also manipulated by ex and/or actual micronations that are looking only for destabilization and for take over the control of the Organization itself, like how is happening with the illegal pool indeed by Belia, not a member of the UM, that includes also other 2 Micronations not more members. This pool, without explaining nothing (what, why, how, when Hashima did, and the same about Belia), has been created only for destabilize the Organization and expel the actual leadership, like a golpe/coup d'etat/putsch. I think that is better to build a stronger family of members, where the expulsion will be only an option never used, and where every member collaborate constructive to the organization. In this case is also impossible that both the parts can say their version, because Belia censured the other part, covering the truth. Same thing will happen if another Micronation will have his behavior. The cases of loss of membership are the following: • A member can lose membership if isn't more active; • A member can lose membership if doesn't contact more the United Micronations after 2 months; • A member can lose membership if keeps an aggressive/offensive behavior about the United Micronations; • A member can lose membership if declares offensive war to every other micronation (doesn't matter if member or not of the United Micronations); • A member can lose membership if contacts the United Micronations asking to don't be more a member; • A member can lose membership if introduces laws in its Micronation that damage every kind of the human rights.

Now, are all objective and impartial cases, proved with evidences a right and honest expulsion act from the Chairman after the necessary warning(s) is completely okay, from my point of view. The cases of loss of membership include inactivity, will to withdraw from the UM, having a bellicose behavior (the United Micronation promotes peace and development, not war and destruction, this is why this case is present. however, every case will be valuated and the needed warning(s) have to be sent before an expulsion, as how the UM did with Belia) and violate the human rights. The Chairman can't expel a member just because his mood. The Principality of Hashima, as incumbent Chairman of the UM, will be impartially judge, as how has been until now. If all us start to move together, from the Chairman until the newest member, into fields like activity inside the UM, into legality, into promote peace and development, into improvement of the foreign relations and diplomacies... the expulsion will never be a needing. I'm not happy when it comes to be necessary, for now is better to keep the situation as how it is, the risk of a golpe/coup d'etat/putsch or however of a strong destabilization is strong, and i can't allow that some vandals will destroy an Organization that promotes peace and development. I invite You and everyone other member of the micronation, to help me with the Organization itself. Everyone, please, respect the rules of the Organization, from the newest member to myself too of course. If we all joined the UM, is because we believe into the values of the UM itself, peace and development. Let's just talk about peace and development! Together we can change, a little everyday, we can do our best for improve us and our community!

Response

That's a reasonable response, but my concern is not every future Chairman may be as impartial as you are. What if we have a future chairman who has a grudge against a particular member state and removes them? There is no recourse for someone to take action if such an unfair removal happens, and so if every nation was required to vote on a potential expulsion it would be protect against a future Chairman misusing the power.

I see this point, then well, we will need to work hard for build an Organization with trustful members. This is why Hashima kept the right of veto in past, for avoid situations like this one that you are describing. The idea to let members vote and choose is good from one point of view, but can have a bad view of point too. With manipulations/corruptions from an "evil" member, the pool could turn into an easy putsch, and we'll bring the "evil" member on top of the Presidency. Maybe we could require that all the members should vote YES for make valid the vote, and allow the pool only with serious and indisputable evidences. Another option could be create a Security Council, with some members choose between the most serious, impartial and by seniority, that will have the duty to check that everytime the expulsions and bans will be genuine and protect the legality.
I would certainly be in favour of the creation of a Security Council. Would you like me to propose the necessary motion?

Improvement suggestions

Right all, as promised, I will now suggest ways to improve this article once editing has opened up again:

  • In the history section, rely less on what is essentially a list of events and provide more of a summary of the organization's history. As it exists, the section is hard to read and not very insightful.
  • Fix the grammar and other English conventions.
  • Actually summarize the election instead of using a whole section just for a link.

Hope these help give you guys an idea of how to clean things up. Überstadt (talk) 07:07, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestions! I will personally try to fix these things as soon as possible, after that the block on the article will expire, hoping someone will not start again with an edit warring. Upon the fixing of the grammar, if you want i would be glad if you could give an hand. Fabriziodg91 (talk) 17:40, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
I would also be willing to help clean up the UM page if you want my assistance. Whestcorea 21:22, 13 November 2015 (GMT)
I fixed the history section, creating a timeline as separate article and summarized the elections. About the grammar errors, everyone is welcome to fix them. Thanks.

Dank flag 2 copy.pngFederal Republic of Whestcorea

I propose that the United Micronations boycott the 2016 Micronational Olympics hosted by Belia.