Talk:Criticism of the GUM

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Historic criticism

Below is some historic criticism from circa 2011 which editors may choose to incorporate. This used to be in the GUM main article but was taken out a few years ago due to being outdated. Obviously adapt accordingly. Unfortunately a lot of the citations are deadlinks so maybe remove those. ADAMVS PRIMVS IMPERATOR 01:47, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

The GUM was subject to criticism from several micronationalists.[1][2][3][4] In more recent times, criticism has come from such people as Gordon Freeman[5] and Heinrich Schneider,[6] mostly about the policies on professionalism held by the GUM. They argued that micronations being constrained or condemned for being non-serious or unprofessional is against their idea of micronationalism being whatever its creators want, pointing to such famous micronations as the Republic of Molossia, one of the most famous and respected micronations in the world,[7] having non-serious characteristics, such as describing themselves as a 'dictatorial banana-republic' and waging war against the defunct state of East Germany since 2 November 1983.

This criticism was refuted by GUM members on multiple occasions, using examples of GUM member states Juclandia counting toys as citizens and Wyvern waging an annual "fireworks war" against the Netherlands - they countered the example of Molossia by pointing out that despite its tongue-in-cheek domestic features it is known for acting very professionally in regards to its interactions with other nations. The GUM attempted to encourage formality in intermicronational relations (something which has been supported by most members of the MicroWiki community several times),[8][9][10][11][12] and criticised instances when a member state acted in an uncharacteristically informal manner, such as when the then King Håkon of Zealandia announced an alleged "coup" by posting a short video in which he pretended to be a character with a comical voice and fake dreadlocks, and then refused to impart further information on the event.[13] There is no record of the GUM having ever attempted to directly interfere in a nation's domestic affairs, but the organisation did encourage foreign affairs and diplomacy to be conducted in an appropriately formal fashion and expected member states to act relatively professionally on the intermicronational stage.

Thank you! This will be very helpful. Z. Luna Skye (Prince Zarel I) (talk) 04:55, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Lehmark

'On 23 May 2019, a micronation called Empire of Lehmark made headlines when it was accepted as an observer state, despite having claimed Earth. The claim was previously not public knowledge. Adam I, Chair of the GUM at the time, said Lehmark would be expelled unless they retracted their claims.'

This is inaccurate and abusive. The claim was made public on our website and if you people did your job and "researched" the nations that apply, you would have read it. Not too mention it was claimed for a total of 3 days while I attempted to learn what a micronation was allowed to claim, and instead of trying to help us as a new nation, the mature nations of your organisation chose to tear us down. We suggest you do your homework before you make certain accusations, about an event that took place almost 1 year ago. Also if you going to make a criticism page, we would suggest talking about your toxic culture and environment.

@Gb555: This is an actual event that happened, and is cited. Just because you regret it does not mean it did not happen, it should still be noted, even if you did retract your claims. And a criticism page is not inherently "toxic culture". Z. Luna Skye (Prince Zarel I) (talk) 13:43, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't regret it. Don't put words in my mouth. If you read my comment I am clearly commenting in the toxic culture that the GUM creates. In any case. I don't give permission for this to be published. Gb555 (talk) 21:05, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

You don't own this information. It's cited in a newspaper, in the public domain, and it's not defamatory, nor does it infringe on your personal privacy. So your permission is irrelevant. If you continue to remove this section, I will have to treat it as vandalism. If it's any consolation, my side of the story is merely that despite looking at your website we did not see anything about you claiming the whole Earth. That only came out after the GUM's critics at The Glastieven decided to use that fact to embarass the organisation, effectively forcing me to threaten to expel you. Since all this section does is cite their article, perhaps you should take this up with The Glastieven. ADAMVS PRIMVS IMPERATOR 22:22, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Defamation is irrelevant whether I'm a person or country if I revoke permission to publish something, regardless of whether it's in the public domain or not. You must respect that under the law. Threaten me all you like. I revoke permission and will not allow you to publish this. The information was completely available on our website and at no time did we hide that claim. It was completely public knowledge. Gb555 (talk) 23:39, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Woah, now. I don't really get what is going on, but this is the internet. People have the freedom to say what they want and chronicle something that happened. If you are mad about someone publicizing you don't like, go to the source. Take Adam's advice and talk to the The Glastieven. Do you think politicians do this when something they don't want to be out there is referenced on Wikipedia? Microwiki is public domain, which is defined as: consisting of all the creative work to which no exclusive intellectual property rights apply. This means that if it is about you, and not any your private works, you cannot tell someone they cannot write about it. --President William Wilson, Archduke of Wilson (talk) 00:05, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
Under what law? In most countries that article would remain up until the heat death of the universe, or that website comes down from lack of domain renewal, whichever comes last. It's going to be published whether you like that fact or not. Freedom of the press is a thing outside of your own bubble, you know. In short, the fact that it's public domain indicates very clearly that this matter is no longer private, and is therefore no longer owned by any individual. You're pretty much just digging yourself into a hole at this rate. At this point, it's best to leave Lehmark's past alone and let it die, because dragging it to the front repeatedly is clearly not doing you any favors. --Zenrax (talk) 19:07, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
  1. 'GUM talk page exchange between Gordon Freeman and Robert Lethler', 16 November 2009
  2. 'GUM criticised for voting procedures', A1 News Service, 27 July 2010
  3. 'GUM under fire as Anderson admits leaking logs', A1 News Service, 31 August 2012
  4. 'A Grand Conspiracy', MicroWiki Forum, 8th September 2011
  5. 'Micronationalism is serious business', A1 News Service, 5 September 2011
  6. 'A Grand Conspiracy' Post 27893, MicroWiki Forum, 7 September 2011
  7. 'Lonely Planet' Explores Micronations, National Public Radio, 1 November 2006
  8. 'Suits and ties.', MicroWiki Forum, 16-31 May 2011
  9. 'The Community', MicroWiki Forum, 24-29 October 2011
  10. 'Silliness and, frankly, plain stupidity in the community', MicroWiki Forum, 3-6 August 2011
  11. 'Can we make the community formal?', MicroWiki Forum, 14 October 2011
  12. 'Diplomatic Language and Formalities', MicroWiki Forum, 11-12 November 2011
  13. 'Olof Olofsson reporting', The Zealandian Gazette, 4 February 2012